Other fitness training?
 

I'm curious what kind of fitness routines you might do in addition to ILC to stay in shape. I confess that the question is inspired by a thread over at the EmptyFlower forum called Is IMA enough for health?

I think a couple of people have mentioned here that in addition to practicing I Liq Chuan, they are also enthusiastic yoga practitioners. Based on his YouTube videos, I would say that Ashe is into weight training and also leaping over tall buildings in a single bound. :)

In addition to daily form work and weekly classes, I try to do push-ups and pull-ups most days of the week, as well as a few yoga stretches like Parsvottanasana and Virabhadrasana II to loosen up my hamstrings and hips. I also do high intensity interval training (H.I.I.T) on an elliptical trainer several times a week. That's about it. Every now and then I do some rope skipping, go for a jog or lift some free weights, but not on a regular basis, which is what really counts for health. Spinning is also a surprisingly good workout - I noticed that after about an hour of spinning last week, all the participants were sweating buckets.

So what do you do (if anything) to stay in shape?

Peter

Since I got sick I haven't done much of anything. I'm woefully unfit at the moment. Ilm going to have a hard time hanging at the intensive.

Sorry to hear about that. I hope it's not anything serious. You do have almost 2 months to recover before the intensive, and that Arizona climate is supposed to be pretty healthy.

Peter

Big question Peter and to answer we end up having to define what is health. I think overall health has three components, mental, physical and spiritual and although ILC covers all three I still have some other programs to fill out my personal health and fitness program. I think you are specifically refering to physical fitness.

I like to be physically fit so I have a relaxed program of ILC which I work on daily solo and partner, cycling (on and off road, Perth is a great place to peddle although today is going to be 39C so maybe I'll give it a miss) and yoga (asanas and pranyama) to get the mix right for me. Wieght is a critical issue and of course your diet is important too.

Personally I'm not sure that IMA in a non-tradional context, i.e. a busy outward focused lifestyle is enough. I like the cardio and the flexibility and strength/core work outs I get from cycling and yoga. Personally I like the idea of a mix fitness activities to stay in shape, but for the last 6 years, the unifying overarching practice which pulls it all together for me is ILC.

i like cycling, hiking and climbing myself.

Yes, I was referring to physical fitness, but you bring up an important point: mental and spiritual health are also very important and closely interlinked with each other.

There's yet another aspect that's important to me, but I don't have a word for it. It's sort of the life energy within you that gives you the drive to get things done and enjoy life. People with chronic fatigue syndrome, for example, frequently suffer from a lack of this "life energy" and feel lethargic, exhausted and depressed (for years at a time! It must be horrible).

Most days I wake up brimming with energy, but on some days I feel lethargic and am just glad to get the day over. I don't know what it is that determines the level of this "life energy" (still looking for a better term!) within us. So much of life depends on this internal source of energy, and I wonder if there is a way to develop it, just as you can develop physical fitness.

Peter

I'm a little bit out of my depth but I think chi or prana might be a way of describing life energy. In traditional Chinese medicine MA your life force is inherited from your parents and stored in your kidneys. You can enhance and develop your chi by practicing chi kung. Pranyama is energising as well.

I was thinking that other words that could be used to describe this life energy might include things like vitality, spirit, pep, zest, vigor, etc.

I've heard of chi/qi and prana, the Chinese and Indian concepts. I generally associate these ideas with breathing techniques, but that's just off the top of my head. If the life force is inherited from our parents (and why not, we inherit so many other things from them), then it seems like we are stuck with the life energy we have, and there is not much we can do about it.

Have you had any experience with chi kung with respect to enhancing life energy?

Peter

I have some experience with a few chi kung styles but I’m not an authority. One of my ILC mates, Steve Bobs, who is a member of this Forum and has posted his web site address, teaches chi kung. There are lots of different styles to choose from.
Vitality is a good word and you can conserve the life force you have with sensible living and you can learn to generate and store chi if you can find a style that suits your particular circumstances. The ILC macro cosmic energy flow exercise is a form of chi kung and involves absorption and projection as compared to absorption and storage. And once you’ve stored it you can project it later if you want or use it yourself.

Vitality
 

Vitality or whatever word one wants to use for it, originates from the inner body. Normally we don't have access to this source as it is hidden below the seal of non-conciouss thinking and feelings.

The goal of practicing 15 basic exercises or the ILC forms is to unify the physical body with the mental aspects. Once one has reached this quality, he will feel vitality.

Hi,

I agree that the 15 basic exercises are the Chi kung (or Nei kung) of ilc. Correct breathing combined with correct body movement and mind focus (awareness) are the requirements of any qigong. I've found that over time my qigong is becoming more ilc and my ilc is becoming more qigong:D

On the topic I also have started running 6 kms 3 x a week and I cycle to most of my classes (not as dedicated as Chris!). I find that this helps with cardio and also determination and besides my dog loves it ;)

regards

Steve

I've never done chi kung, so I'll have to take your word for it. But if I understand you and Miro correctly, the careful and mindful practice of the 15 basic exercises should yield benefits similar to those associated with chi kung/nei kung/ qigong? Interesting - I can already see that I need to pay much more attention to my breathing.

Other issues that we haven't discussed that have a big impact on vitality are probably sleep and diet. That's a big area and I don't even know where to start, other than by saying I like both sleeping and eating. :rolleyes:

Peter
PS: "On the topic I also have started running 6 kms 3 x a week and I cycle to most of my classes" - wow, congratulations! That sounds like a pretty good workout.

Hi Peter,

Yes breathing is an important part ! There are 2 schools of thought 1) that you synchronize your movements with your breathing, using your breath as the guide and 2) that you do the movement and over time your breathing adapts to the correct pattern.

They both end up the same !

There are also different types of breathing and types of exhalation :eek:

I would suggest a gradual process that can be developed at your own pace.

First take a deep breath and notice which part of your body expands.

You want the belly (diaphragm) to expand and to be relaxed. This is always the case to start with. If you follow the breath with the mind you are leading the qi down to the dantien (between 2/4 below the navel and inside the body).

Then breath out and pull the belly in and slightly tighten the abdomen and perineum. This is qigong 'natural' or 'Buddhist' breathing. It helps the internal organs, the heart and depending on the amount of tightening, the stomach muscles. You could even tighten the whole body on the out breath but be aware that it is a little dangerous and raises the blood pressure.

This is not the breathing you want for playing ilc ;) But it helps to get the mind and breath to the dantien and is the crux of many styles of qigong and 'external' kung fu. Do this breathing intentionally twice a day for at least 20 mins and you'll have optimum health (that's a liable claim :D).

Next is 'reverse-breathing' and again there are variations. In ilc this is emphasized in the 'tu-na breathing', it is so important that it is one of the 15 and the first movement of both the forms !
It is the same in breath as before. The out breath is different in that rather than tightening, you stay relaxed and 'drop' the breath so that you feel a sinking from the sternum to the dantien and the lower belly expands a little more. At the same time there is a sensation of expansion up the back, the lats and out to the fingers. Yin down the front and yang up the back.

I practice both. To me the first is collecting and storing the qi and the second is moving it around the body, the yin and yang of breathing :)

I use the first for running and cycling so I can get enough air into my lungs and it seems to make them both more meditative and qigong.

As to food and sleep, well I was vegetarian for a few years but now eat meat and I seem to need 7-8 hours of sleep to stay well. There is so much conflicting advise that i try just to not eat too much and eat a varied diet ???:confused:???

stay well, train hard

Steve

Something else that comes to mind on the subject of fitness training is the idea that moderate exercise on a regular basis is much better over the long term than sporadic bouts of higher intensity exercise.

By this I mean that doing 10 push-ups a day is probably far healthier and beneficial than doing 70 push-ups once a week. Or walking 20 minutes a day is better than 2 hours on a treadmill once a week. I guess the possible variations are endless. The lower intensity training also reduces the risk of injury, so fewer injuries means that there are far fewer involuntary, injury-induced training breaks.

The key to regular/daily exercise is to find something that you really enjoy doing. After years of hit or miss (trying different activities), I discovered that I really enjoy working on Taiqi/ILC forms in the morning. It's relaxing and a nice, meditative way to start the day. Depending on my mood, I can work on fast or slow forms, or focus on a particular aspect of a form like noticing where the hip rolls are, or feeling the absorb and project. It slowly gets my body revved up for the day, so that by the time I am finished with the forms, I'm in the mood for more strenous exercise like push-ups and pull-ups.

The 21 Form is part of my morning routine, and I hope to include the Butterfly Form sometime this year.

How often do you guys work on your forms?

Peter

Peter,

Overall I quite agree with you that regular exercises are much better than sporadic.

However, as far as I know body is improving itself quite good when trained close to its limits. Otherwise it does not get enough “stimuli”. However, doing this all the time can also be quite bad, I guess.

Thus, I would say that it’s great and important to train often with not very intensive training, with more rare (but also regular) training close to ones limits. This way of training should be giving both the general fitness, as well as progress in physical form.

There is training for general health and fitness and there is training for martial fitness. They are not the same though one should have overall fitness and health to fight. For self defense one's need is greater for anaerobic fitness and the ability to respond immediately without the benefit of warming up, of course, with enough aerobic fitness (stamina) to run away if the need or opportunity presents itself. Real life encounters are usually of very short duration. For competetive sport fighting one needs both but certainly a greater degree of stamina in order to go the distance in a multi round fight. Ashe is best suited to address this aspect as he is very knowledgeable about fitness and has fought competetively.

for my last fight i basically did crossfit style training and standard wrestling and hard sparring. lot's of gut busting intervals, like running stairs till you want to puke and then some. basically just doing something flat out for 60 sec intervals (to the point of exhaustion) and then just doing enough intervals to equal your total expected time in the ring.

intensity is key.

Yes, good point. Since general health is needed/desirable all of the time (by most people), and martial fitness is needed only occasionally, if at all, I would argue that general health should be viewed as being vastly more important. After all, general health serves as the basis for everything we do in life, and a high level of general health also provides the best foundation for martial fitness.

Didn't Ashe have some concerns that his knees would survive the intensive conditioning needed for fight preparation? Thus each person needs to find a balance: at what point does martial fitness begin to have a negative impact on our general health?

In I Liq Chuan terms, it's important to "know your limits", and not go beyond a point that is damaging to your body/spirit.

Peter

strictly speaking that's true but the training wasn't the causative factor for the knee issues, simply that the training was aggravating damage that was already present due to other factors.

A friend of mine recently went on a diet which emphasizes small portions of healthy foods at mealtimes and zero snacking between meals. He mentioned that his energy levels have increased tremendously in the few weeks he has followed this approach to eating.

I've also started to cut back on meal sizes and stopped nibbling between meals, and likewise feel a greater sense of well-being and stronger life energy. So in a certain sense, rather than working to 'develop' this life energy, just by eating less I am "freeing" the energy by avoiding the consumption of unnecessary calories. Fasting is said to boost mental clarity and energy - perhaps eating less has similar benefits on a smaller scale?

Peter

Personally to me your recommendations would not work. I have between slim and medium body. My person level of energy has substantially grown within the last year, when I started eating more and gained over 10 kilos.

According to Ayurveda there are 3 major body types (Doshas) and some mixes of it. For each body type there is good/healthy for him/her nutrition type, physical activity levels, mental practices, etc. Keeping some “good for everyone” approach can harm some people, while benefit others. Unfortunately, it’s a common practice to see books, fitness programs, etc. done without taking these important things into account. And Ayurveda guys really gathered some nice info.

BTW, here is a link to quickly find out your predominant body type (individual Doshas mix):

http://www.indiaoz.com.au/health/ayu...bodytype.shtml

I have a bar for pull ups, some free weights I don't use that much, and a heavy bag.

I guess it was more of an observation about myself than a recommendation - as you said, everybody is different and needs to find their own sense of balance in life.

I recently read that "fitness and health are two different things", i.e., fitness is related to muscle tone and strength, while health is related to the internal organs and "life-energy" issues. I mix up the concepts of fitness and health sometimes - I assume that fit people are healthy, and that healthy people are fit, although I know this is not always the case (think of very 'fit' young athletes who die unexpectedly of heart problems, or of feeble, 'unfit' old ladies who outlive their own kids and grandkids).

So do efforts to maintain our fitness also benefit our health, or just make us look and feel better without really improving our underlying health? Are there 'health exercises' which are separate from general fitness training (endurance/strength/flexibility) - maybe something along the lines of the 15 basic exercises performed as Chi kung/Nei kung exercises?

Peter

Exactly. And that's why I showed my own example that is different from yours. Same things (in this case - less frequent meals and fewer calories) can do both good and harm. We need to know the nature of things and ourselves and "be present in moment" - do right things in our own situations.

[/quote]
So do efforts to maintain our fitness also benefit our health, or just make us look and feel better without really improving our underlying health?[/quote]

I guess it again can be everything here - it can bring some benefit to our health, it can do nothing, it can do harm. All depends on who does something, what he does, to what extent, etc. But overall, for most people, considering current lifestyle I guess that our fitness and exercises we do typically bring benefit to our health.

Vlad

IMO health benefits should be ancillary to one's life pursuits and not a goal in itself unless one is sick or sickly and then only for a restorative purpose. My list of all the ways that I might wish to be remembered when I die which can be inscribed on my tombstone does not include "died in the pursuit of health" or "died healthy".

i would say that the boost in energy is the result of cleaning up your diet and the boost many feel from fasting.

Since I don't have a training partner for heavy spinning, my conditioning is almost completely non-ILC based. My routine consists of rope skipping and the occasional track sprints for my cardio. I prefer bodyweight and gymnastics exercises for my strength conditioning, but I'm currently doing deadlifts, squats, and weighted pull ups and dips to add a more mass to my slim frame. I'd love to add in some yoga, but my gym doesn't have a particularly good yoga class; I don't want to pay for classes at the yoga studio.

Personally, I think eating more often is the way to go. I agree with Ashe that the energy boost is probably from a cleaned up diet and not from cutting back on calories. Both my wife and I get groggy and irritable if we don't eat throughout the day (3 meals plus lots of snacks, or 5-6 small meals).

Everybody's different. Fitness wise, before I got sick, I was doing some plyometrics and a little bit of other stuff, but my main focus was doing heavy spinning.

After the intensive, my plan is to work on the wrapping exercises with tension as much as is healthy, and go on a lot of walks with my wife. (and heavy spinning)

In terms of diet... I feel best on a diet of medium-large sized meals, two a day, with no snacking. For social reasons i can't really stick to this diet, but I find if my last meal of the day is relatively early (say 6ish) and my first meal of the day is relatively late (Noonish) I feel good. But I know this kind of thing isn't for everyone, and I kind of have to get myself up for it...

i'm in the same boat right now. it's such a bummer, que no?

Do you work in the wrapping exercises with tension as part of (a variation of) the 13 basic exercises, or do you do these as completely separate exercises?

The wrapping exercises with tension are pretty new to me, so I am not sure I am doing them correctly yet. Maintaining two-direction energy seems to be an important aspect of the exercises.

Peter

I try to be pretty strict on keeping the 15 basic exercises "pure", and any alterations I want to do, or additions like the tension exercises, I do in addition to the basics.

Agree about two direction energy. It seems extremely important. When I'm first getting started I'll often do the static positions to feel as much two direction as I can.